What's so bad about smokeless tobacco? It's not as bad as smoking right?

If you do an internet search you’ll find articles that tell you how “safe” smokeless tobacco is… that couldn’t be further from the truth. They’ll tell you that the real danger to smoking is the “smoke” itself and the tobacco just isn’t dangerous – LIES!!!

Smokeless tobacco contains at least 3,000 chemicals, including many that you wouldn’t want in your body. Like all forms of tobacco, dip & chew contain nicotine, an addictive drug that gets you hooked on tobacco. Holding one pinch of smokeless tobacco in your mouth for 30 minutes delivers as much nicotine as 3-4 cigarettes.

In addition, at least 28 cancer-causing chemicals have been identified in smokeless tobacco, including:

  • nitrosamines – the most powerful cancer-causing agents in smokeless tobacco.
  • Smokeless tobacco contains from 20 to 43,000 times more nitrosamines than other consumer products, such as beer or bacon!
  • polonium 210 – a radioactive form of the element polonium
  • formaldehyde – a chemical found in the fluid used to preserve dead bodies
  • cadmium – a metallic element used in batteries
  • arsenic – a poisonous element used in insecticides

The use of smokeless tobacco can cause:

  • cancers of the mouth, pharynx (throat), and esophagus (the tube that carries food to the stomach)
  • shrinking of the gums around your teeth
  • cracked lips, white spots, sores, and bleeding in the mouth
  • increased risk for heart disease and stroke

Still think that smokeless tobacco isn’t dangerous?

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140 Comments

  1. Id like to know where the writer of this article got their facts , from another online article ? Or just guessing? Because there has been a doctor whose done a full research on smokeless tobaco and while he says he still tell people to not so it or said it is a safe alternative to smoking and goes on to say why so please don’t write articles of lies whn you do not know what ur talking about the chemicals in cigerates are far worse then smokeless tobaco

    • Hey Dan, ask Tony Gwynn how bad smokeless tobacco is.

    • Agree with you Dan. You should always back up with facts

    • I hope you know all of these things are true. I am doing research for a paper in my language class. In our health class we had a TRAINED doctor come in and tell us the facts. Don’t use this as an alternative to smoking. It will eventually kill you. So Dan don’t shoot people down and be stupid because you haven’t done any research either and you can’t even write a sentence correctly.

      • its stupid because you guys dont now what you are talking about. chew isnt bad if you brush youe teeth where yall have a dip in

        • *sigh*

          Are you honestly suggesting that all of the bad ingredients in smokeless tobacco (I won’t even say “cancer causing” because I don’t feel like fighting that battle) can simply be “brushed away”?

          Right… we’re the stupid ones.

    • I agree. Saying ST causes cancer is like saying fine cut leaves cause cancer. You could load your mouth with oak tree leaves everyday. Its the same thing as a tobacco leaf. Except a tobacco leaf has nicotine. Why does coffee not cause cancer? Its a plant that contains a stimulant toxin called caffien

    • Safe alternative ? 30,000 Americans a year get mouth or throat cancer from “chew ” maybe when you or someone in your family has half their face removed like a good friend (who used to tell me it was safe) had you won’t think it’s so safe .Its also a stimulant .For you to say it is safe might make some young kids start .Maybe it’s about you making money off of it that causes you to make such dangerously misinformed statements

    • Umm…. It never once said that its worse than smoking. Before you say something idiotic please read the fucking article. It is implying that it still isn’t safe. It never once said( smoking is worse then chewing tobacco) idiot.

  2. Dan – all of the articles on KillTheCan.org are written by people who’ve actually used (and quit) smokeless tobacco products. We unequivocally “know what we’re talking about”.

    If you read the article which you’re commenting on, we’re not suggesting cigarettes aren’t “worse” than smokeless products (though that’s debatable as well). What we’re saying is that smokeless products aren’t “safe alternatives” as many studies suggest.

    You mention “a doctor that has done research”. Care to share the study? I’d love to see it.

    • I have been chewing tobacco for about 3 years now and have not experienced and of the side affects you listed. The only way your gums will bleed is if you do it way way too much and your teeth won’t stain if you brush an take care of your teeth. If you use it in moderation and not excessively then you will not have these made up side effects. And most of the time people get cancer for chewing way too much and not taking care of their mouth. I understand it can be addicting but anything could be considered addicting food can be addicting. It’s all about moderation. You could chew too many seeds and you would stop experience some of these side effects.. Get your facts right haha

      • This is just plain funny. Thanks for the laughs Conner.

        • I enjoy this response because it just makes this”.org” site make me question your legitimacy all unnatural chemicals can potentially cause cancer, they haven’t narrowed any specific chemicals to directly cause cancer it is just speculation. They also speculate fluorine an fluoride can cause cancer….. These are used to treat water. So we should all stop drinking water too!

          • Just so I’m clear… are you suggesting the identified cancer causing chemicals listed above don’t in fact cause cancer?

    • yes i do beleive just about everything. I know its bad. One thing i will never understand or possiblly not buy off on is why in the hell they would put all these very expensive toxic chemicals in the stuff? The nicotine its what ya get hooked on so adding all the other expensive stuff makes no since (Plutonuim 210)? REALLY COME ON

      • These chemicals aren’t added to the tobacco by manufactures. The only common additives (besides flavorings) that I am aware of are the salts used to raise the pH and thus improve nicotine delivery. Nitrosamines are a byproduct of the curing process and are going to be present in most foods cooked at high temperatures. The other chemicals mentioned are trace contaminants drawn from the soil the tobacco is grown in. These same contaminants can be found in just about any plant and make their way up the food chain. Even the heaviest of tobacco users is going to get a larger dose of these chemicals from their diet than from dipping. That’s not to say there aren’t plenty of legitimate reasons to quit. But this list of trace contaminants is not one of them.

      • BRO, COME ON. ITS USED AS A FERTILIZER! GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!

      • Hi my name is Susan and I am 43 years old and I chew and I will be trying to quit I was dumb and started thinking it would help me quit smoking bad idea I brush my teeth a lot and as well as every one on be leaving that it causes canser my Question is why don’t they talk more about it on their adds on tv it’s all most like chewing is not a bad thing every one be for me chewed but in that time they didn’t have a enough testing to proof that it is bad so I’m stumped a bout the hole thing yes doctors will tell u that it will kill u but all most every thing that we eat and drink can harm us i mean every thing it’s a shame that they can’t make foods and chew and beer safe for us all we all have a leaning process that we all go threw and some of us don’t like to hear the bad but we will all get their one way or a nother

    • No Dr would ever make that claim unless he is paid to say that by the merchants of death the “tobacco drug cartels “

  3. In the 1971, cigarette advertisements were no longer allowed on television or on radio. Smokeless tobacco ads were allowed on air until 1986 because it was billed as a “safe alternative”. According to documents from the industry, they wanted to push “harm reduction” instead of “quitting”. Hence the warning label says specifically “This product is not a safe alternative”.

    The doctor you are speak of is Dr. Rodu and he receives an “open grant” from tobacco companies to promote snuff as a safe alternative. I have yet to see an independent review of his work.

    Please list any specific lies that are stated in the article.

  4. you mean one single doctor, apposed to thousands of doctors, scientists, addicts, cancer patients, relatives of deceased loved ones, and even the tobacco companies themselves…oh yeah, lets trust the one doctor. makes perfect sense.

    • One doctor is not the reason here. It is about quality not quantity. In my opinion cancer is genetic so if your’e going to get it you’re going to get it regardless. Yes there are things that can speed up the process but the evidence that smokeless tobacco has ever been the cause of cancer in anyone EVER is nowhere to be found. So until then stop beating this dead horse with extremely general statistics and false claims of people who say they got the big C from ST.

      • Bob – thank you for your “opinion” that cancer is genetic. Would you care to share you credentials that would make me take your opinion as fact? Did you ever read this article that you’re commenting on? Are you suggesting that the cancer-causing agents that have been identified in smokeless tobacco aren’t in fact “cancer-causing”?

        I’m not quite sure how we’re “beating a dead horse” here by pointing out the fact that these ingredients are in these products.

        • “Cancer causing” there is no definitive cause of cancer it is a mutation in a cell nobody knows why the mutations occur yet the theory that is most popular right now is that when cells is damaged repeatedly the body decides to mutate a cell to have it reproduce rapidly in order to deal with the recurring damage that the cells are sustaining im a dipper and this is from a bio teacher from my friends class he is taking for medical school, (doesn’t mean it is fact just thought I would put some different information out there) I am not argruing for or against tobacco use

          • I would like to back this comment up. You don’t get cancer from one thing. Everyone is born with cancer in their body it’s just when it mutates, it becomes a problem. Someone can move the healthiest life and get cancer and someone can dip or smoke or eat the nastiest shot out there for there whole life and not get cancer. It don’t matter what you do, you are going to get cancer or not get. It does not matter what you do. And I see it as that it’s your life. Why should people tell you what you can and can’t do. Everyone’s going to die someday. Why not enjoy it. By the way, I’ve being dipping for 4 years about 5 times a day. Nothing wrong with me and soon to be a doctor in the USAF.

          • So everyone has cancer and it just hasn’t “grown” yet? Tobacco use is one of those things that potentially makes it grow… No need to go on any further.

          • When you lose half your face we will see if you feel the same way .30,000 people are diagnosed each year with mouth and throat cancer caused by chew Half of those don’t live over 5 years

        • All I know is I’m on day ten of my quit and your site has helped tons, let’s say dip doesn’t cause cancer, I have been chewing for twelve years and I can honestly say I have never felt better getting that shit out of system, cancer or not that stuff is no good.

      • Maybe when you lose half of your face like my good friend ( who used to tell me the same crap you are saying ) I feel sorry for you .The American tobacco cartels have killed more people world wide than all the other drug cartels combined .

    • You also mean Doctors completely out of their field of work doing this to do it?
      There’s brain surgeons “Proving”, smokeless tobacco is worse. I could literally say I was a Doctor and I’d have thousands of people by the balls from their gullibility.

  5. Just to back up Bob’s comment I would like to cite these websites http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=13276
    http://blackdoctor.org/13764/everyday-things-that-cause-cancer/
    http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/generalinformationaboutcarcinogens/known-and-probable-human-carcinogens
    Given this information humans are exposed to carcinogens on a daily basis just living normal smoke free lives and I see how Bob could very well be correct in his statement

    • Thanks for chiming in James. I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that smokeless is the ONLY reason you can get cancer as that’s obviously not the case. That said, there are a slew of sources that will suggest that smokeless use will INCREASE your chances of developing cancer (and other diseases).

      I don’t typically like to get into a war of source citing, because we can go back an forth all day long posting links that credit / discredit an argument. That said, I will add one (from the same source you cited above – Cancer.org).

      http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/tobaccocancer/smokeless-tobacco

      Please note the section “What kinds of illness are caused by oral or smokeless tobacco” where they list 8 DIFFERENT types of cancers that can be caused by smokeless use.

      • No disrespect intended but almost always and everywhere it is stated that Smokeless tobacco CAUSES cancer and frankly that’s yet to be proven. In fact it is still a mystery to scientist why cells will turn malignant. I personally believe that tobacco use will increase your chances and in some people actually cause it but again this is a personal belief.

        • No disrespect taken. I think it’s a matter of semantics but I one that I’ve noticed too. That said, whether smokeless tobacco “causes cancer” vs. if smokeless tobacco makes is “4-5 times more likely you’ll develop cancer” at least to me… is pretty much the same thing..

          • I agree and no matter causes or increases the chances it isn’t worth it and certainly not good for you.

          • There’s no proof smokeless tobacco is a direct cause of any cancer. Cancer is 2/3 bad fortune. Its gambling. ST carries a low risk of cancer. It is most definitely safer with an R than cigarettes. By no means is it completely safe. Even Brad Rodu suggests nobody start a habit. This is just an option that does reduce risks. He is funded by the tobacco company, but a funder of his research did receive negative feedback and it was published he said in a heartland video interview that they were essentially screwed and had no choice. The funding goes to the Louisville University and is not monitored or censored by tobacco research investors. Vaping I believe to be the safest form of nicotine delivery although until long term studies are conducted I have no right to claim it as a fact. There is a benefit to using nicotine and nicotine alone could be harmless as caffiene. UNTIL THEN KNOW YOUR RISKS. IT CAN HAPPEN. It’s a low risk but if your dice land right you will face one of the worst survival rates. It’s a lottery. You will essentially win a massive amount of suffering if you get all the numbers. The chances however are greater than winning the lottery. I’d say 1 in 100,000 dippers will DIE of oral cancer. Remember your gambling with your life. It is INCREDIBLY difficult to shake this habit. So if your non tobacco please I plead you not to trap yourself Like I have done. I am proceeding yo quit.

      • My dad has chewed since he was 14. He is 48 now and has never had any of the symptoms you have listed here! The dentist always says he has perfect gums and teeth and the dentist knows he chews. He chews about 1-2 cans a day so I feel like it would have caused some kind of symptom you have listed above but it hasn’t in that long of a time. So I think it’s mostly genetics that plays the role if you are going to get cancer or not.

        • You are a dumbass and full of shit, I dip, dip comes in a can, chew comes in a pouch and there is no possible way in hell to dip two whole cans in one day, js

          • Sadly, Sam may be right. We’ve got several members that dipped multiple cans per day.

          • Who’s the dumb ass but you. I have a friend that Dips about 2 cans a day and when I’m on vacation I can do the same.

          • Sams dad must fry it with his eggs and brew his coffee with it. LOL

          • Technically you are right but people in different states call it different things like soda or pop. I call it both and I call leaf chew so don’t hate others dippers. And by the way to Sam, how the hell does your dad dip that much in a day. I can see someone doing that but why that much. I got a lot of friends that dip a can a day and wonder how they do it. A can lasts me about a week and chew around 5 times a day

          • It IS most definitely possible to dip two whole cans in a day. Being someone who has dipped for only two years, I have once went through 5 cans in a day.

          • No one ever accused you of being smart did they?

            Um… congrats?

        • Your dad is a drug addict with a coupe hundred a month habit .He is addicted to chew .Even if he doesn’t get cancer and die or lose half his face he is still a drug addict the same as a heroin addict or alcoholic .Its shameful he has passed his drug addictive views to his son .He needs to go to rehab today .Get him help don’t take up for him .My grandfather smoked camels for 40 years and would always say ” I’ve been smoking 40 years and I don’t have cancer ” 2 months later he weighed 90 pounds down from 190 and died a miserable death .One of my good friends chewed ( and said the same misinformed stuff you spout ) and just had half of his face removed .Ill try to post a picture if he will let me to show what your dad could end up looking like .Get your drug addict dad help

  6. I just put a big chew in

    • Um… congrats? Is this a plea for help? If so you’re in the right place. Is this you trolling a quit group? Not quite sure how you’d like us to respond to this…

    • Let us know when you have half your face removed .You are a drug addict the same as a heroin addict absolutely the same thing .A drug addict is a drug addict

  7. Hi Nick,
    If you put in a big chew, why are you here? This forum is for serious quitters. Do you want to regain your freedom? If so, post up! -VerticalCloud

  8. Hello,
    I quit 16 months ago after 4 years of putting 1-2 tins a day of that stuff in my mouth. I feel 100% better.
    I still panic that I might get cancer:(
    But I can tell you only after 4 years of use I got high blood pressure. I am only 25
    So quit before you get health problems or worse cancer.

  9. Thank god I got away from using smokeless tobacco! What a burden it was to me and my family. I used for about 31 years. I was a slave to it, and a company(US Smokeless Tobacco, an Altria company) that big tobacco used to get more nicotine addicts to use their harmful products. Check out what they say about their own products here: http://www.ussmokeless.com/en/cms/Products/Smokeless_Tobacco/default.aspx?src=home

    Thanks to this site, I am finally able to face the day without something to be ashamed of, and something that would have killed me if I had continued to use it!

  10. Dear Chewie,

    Being an asshole doesn’t help your cause.

    Sincerely,
    Rob

  11. It’s a free country do what makes you happy

  12. I have been using dip for about 3 years, off and on though. Sometimes for about 3-4 months ill use it regularly, then quit easily for about 2 months before starting again. The first time I took a break was after about 8 months of using and after 2 days I no longer had that urge. My question though is how long do you have to be dipping to risk getting cancer. I have read on some sites that it needs to be 10+ years. But I am not so sure about that, anyone know for a fact?

    • Ben – I don’t think anyone knows for a fact. There have been folks who’ve chewed for decades and not gotten cancer. There have been others that have chewed for less than a year and died a year later. That said, there’s little debate that dipping is bad for you. The sooner you quit, the sooner you know that you’re not doing anything to further your chances.

      • “There have been others that have chewed for less than a year and died a year later” you actually just make this stuff up. I have done much research, online and in research databases, and have not found one case of someone dying from chewing tobacco in one year.

        • Mike – when doing your “much research” online and in “research databases” I’m assuming you’ve run across people who have developed cancer from using smokeless tobacco.

          I’m also assuming that you’ve run across people who’ve chewed for decades.

          I’m assuming once again that you’ve not run across any research that puts a specific timeline on cancer growth (as I suggested above) and I’m further assuming that you’ll agree that there IS a link between smokeless and cancer.

          As you’ve not run across a timeline for cancer growth, I’m also assuming you’d agree with me that since there IS a link between smokeless and cancer that if you don’t wan’t to get cancer, then you shouldn’t chew smokeless tobacco.

          • When i was three i was cought stealing cigarette butt out of my moms ashtray my dad being a drug addict and thinking it was cool I was a pack a day smoker by the time I was 5 I lived with my mom for the most part but because of my dads influence I was stealing cigarettes from my mom on a daily basis I’ve dip off and on since probably about 8 I just turned 24 I already have trouble breathing burning in my lungs for the past 4 years have got bronchitis on the average of about twice a year my gums around the teeth where I dip have shrink and I do get blisters on my tongue occasion I’m trying to quit but just can’t seem to find it in myself it is known that many things can cause cancer scientists say if we lived long enough everybody would die of cancer weather smokeless tobacco and smoking causes or just increases the chances none the less it is still very bad for you but smoker should not be criticized by so many non smokers because their smokers

        • Was thinking the same thing. What a pile of shit.

      • Chewie you are a very smart person in what I have read but some of the people are right and some are wrong I am 13 bout to be 14 and have been dipping for 2 years. And I have no problems I wanna quick what should I do but then again I don’t want to quick completely so should I take it slow? Reply back and plzz no bull shit

        • Bubba – I remember when I was your age as a dipper. I loved it. I’d just started in with Skoal Wintergreen Bandits and I was just starting down the road to addiction that I’d be on for nearly the next 2 decades. Knowing what I know now, I’d tell you to stop now and never look back. The problem with “taking it slow” so to speak is that many people never REALLY slow down. They slow down for a week or two, and then before you know it you’re back to a can / day or more.

          I know you love dipping. I did too. Do I think you should quit now? Yep. Do I think you’re “ready” to quit? At 14… probably not. IF you’d trust me you’d be better off in the long run, but I know that’s not an easy thing to do at this point in your life / dipping career.

          No bullshit.

  13. Oral Cancer occurs in approximately 15 per 100,000 non-tobacco users and doubles with the use of smokeless tobacco. Meaning 30 of every 100,000 users will be diagnosed with this disease. The mortality rate of oral cancer is about 50% taking us back to the 15 per 100,000 rate which is similar to the rate of vehicular deaths and nowhere near the rate of smokers.

    • Good stats Stevie. Though I fail to see how they make your argument for you. CLEARLY smoking causes more deaths than smokeless. I don’t believe I (or anyone else on KTC for that matter) has said otherwise. If we have please point me to it and I’ll gladly recant. As you said, using smokeless doubles the rate of cancer. The fact the numbers are small are sort of irrelevant. I’d agree with you that 15/100,000 is pretty small… unless you’re one of the 15… then it’s huge.

      And those numbers don’t take into account all the other issues associated with chewing (bad breath, cardiovascular issue, acid reflux, gum erosion, etc.)

      I do sincerely appreciate your numbers though. Thank you.

  14. The title of the article lead me too believe that’s what you were getting at. I do realize that I posted on an anti-smokeless forum but I can’t help but think that the facts have been misrepresented. The purpose of my stats were to show that while smokeless tobacco is not a “healthy” habit the risk of dying as a direct result of use is minuscule. I appreciate your efforts and hope that you succeed in your mission and for the record, more non-tobacco users die daily than users. Approximately 155,000 people die daily, of that, only 1300 are tobacco users, smokers included. Point being, nobodies getting out alive, do what makes you happy. :)

  15. And, I will refrain from any further posting on your blog as it makes me a dick to do anything that would in anyway interfere with the message you are trying too spread. Good Luck too everyone trying to quit!

  16. Watch the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTOooWc0dsI its called how smokeless tobacco can save your life lots of good facts in it

    • Watched the whole thing. I’ll try to keep my response and level headed as possible.

      First off… all of the “research” that’s being referenced here is by Dr. Brad Rodu who’s the poster boy for “harm reduction”. I’ve said time and time again that I’m a fan of “total harm reduction” as opposed to what Rodu preaches. The title of the book and the title of this video is completely misleading. Using smokeless tobacco is going to do nothing to save your life. Is using dip “safer” than smoking? Sure. I don’t think anyone here has ever said otherwise. But to say it will “save your life” is a misnomer meant to sell books.

      The comparison in this video saying “What’s worse… Cope or Heroin” is laughable so I won’t bother saying anything else about it.

      I did find it ironic that the dentist Mr. Mudjug was talking to said, “The odds of getting cancer is almost nothing” and then immediately followed that up with, “But make sure you get regulsr checkups so we can catch anything if it comes up.” Something doesn’t seem right there.

      Is there an epidemic of oral cancer in the world? Absolutely not. 6 out of 100,000 per year IS super low… unless you’re one of those 6. However, saying using smokelss won’t do much to your chances of getting oral is laughable as well. Using it increases your changes more than 4x than not using.

      I’d agree with Mr. Mudjug that the reason the government isn’t really doing much about tobacco is all about money. $140 billion (way more than that now I’m sure) is nothing to shake a stick at. I’d also agree that it’s complete bullshit that candy doens’t have warning labels – it should. I think we can agree that it never will… but that’s another discussion.

      Dippers WILL love this video and Dr. Rodu’s book. After all, it reinforces what they want to hear.

      I won’t lie… I LOVED dipping. And had Dr. Rodu been around I would have been a big fan of his. But I also don’t miss my receeding gums, the feeling of not being in control cause I forgot my can, etc.

      For me the bottom line is this. NOT being addicted to something is WAY better than being addicted to something.

      And one more thing. Mr. Mudjusg says multiple time to “Do research”. Yet another thing we agree on. Though I would suggest to do additional research other than just Dr. Rodu. If you do, you will find plenty of studies that tell you just how bad the stuff is.

  17. god thats a long comment but very smart sounding if that is what you want it to be

  18. it was informational mr chewie and by the way are you a user “chewie” i am not because of all the chemicals but I’ve done it before,i was very sick my first

  19. My quitting day is tomorrow, 4/6/14 and I found this site today and have enjoyed a bunch of the articles. I don’t understand what a bunch of dip advocates are doing here preaching the stuff, but thanks for your posts chewie. They respond completely and intelligently, but I suppose somehow you still haven’t gotten your point across… Anyway, I’m glad I found this site because it’ll help me quit!

  20. I chew once every night out of habbit. More like a ritual. I dont realy have an urge for it. I been doing it for a little over a year. Does that mean I have an addiction? I dont really think about chew until im home at night after work and board watching t.v

  21. Hey I just started dipping and I just feel so sick after every one does it in my school so I guess I just wanted to be part of the crowd but today was my last day of that stuff im done I’m free mother truckers but guess what I still keep my life frekin hillbilly with out cancer in my mouth

  22. If my dad has dipped for about 20 some years and I have been for about a year does that mean I would be the same as him. He hasn’t had any problems with dipping. So should I?

    • You could very well be the same or you might not be so lucky sometime genetic skip generations so it really just depends on your body an how it reacts to the tobacco use

  23. It’s all about how well you take care of your mouth. Maybe these guys getting cancer need to invest in a toothbrush.

    • Layne – are you honestly suggesting that getting cancer is simply a matter of not brushing? So if I chew daily, smoke daily, but make sure to brush and floss I’ll be at no more risk of getting cancer than someone who doesn’t use these products? Sorry man… that’s just plain ignorant.

      • Keeping a clean mouth lowers the additional risk associated with oral cancer. The risk carried by the tobacco products would just not be elevated from their normal rates since brushing eliminates a risk factor of poor dental hygiene.

  24. Dip is bad but can be good I totally agree it raises ur chances of cancer but gum disease is /preventable take care if your mouth. And the warning says can cause cancer not will unlike cigarette thaat says causes diseases dip is bad but not really and what about Shuster that isn’t bad at all

  25. The discussion up top has gotten too deep (only 5 levels deep) but I wanted to just leave this here for Stephen. It’ll help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation

    • well I was hoping for some ideas on how to quit smoking not to fix my grammar

      • Wasn’t trying to be a dick. I honesty couldn’t make out what you were asking. I’m happy to help if you can clarify your question.

        • I still do dip actually and I have not had any problems to me I love dip and love to dip now I don’t dip 24/7 and my mouth is very clean and don’t have any yellow teeth cause I brush my teeth when I’m done.

      • Hey Stephen Ive dipped as well and what can help you stop is chew on some sunflower seeds or gum or sick on a mint.

  26. The folks that want to dip or keep rationalizing that dip is ok sounds good to me….eventually you will run out of reasons to dip and just be faced with cancer…which then means you will die by autopsy….the rest of us will NOT dip and sit back and enjoy life worry free from dip….my advice???….keep dipping

  27. So is smokey mountain herbal a safe alternative for quitting?

  28. I stumbled upon this site trying to help my dad quit. I quit a few years back after 5 years of a can a day and it really wasn’t that hard, but I got lucky. Anyways, I like this site but Chewie, you are the only one that makes me think twice. You through out numbers and talk down to anyone that disputes what you say. Dip is gross can cause cancer, blah blah blah. We have all heard it before. You said 6/100,000 get oral cancer a year in a comment, how many die from a car accident? Cancer not from dip? Getting shot? . I met many friends through chewing and it gave me something to talk about to someone I wouldn’t of talked to otherwise. If you die in a car accident you are 1/1600. EVERYONE STOP DRIVING ITS BAD FOR YOU. That is how you sound in all of your comments. That’s right, there is a 99.994% chance that you will be completely cancer free. And about 99.9965% chance that you will still live if you do get cancer. If smokers all changed to smokeless tobacco we would save about 137 people/ 100,000 from dying from cancer from tobacco use. That is why harm reduction is a good start. I’m glad I quit because it saved me money but the scare tactic shit doesn’t work that well. Just look at D.A.R.E.. Anyways if you’re going to run a help group I would hope you become less of a prick.

    Thanks,
    Tyler

    • Hey Tyler – thanks for stopping by. Congrats on your quit. As you said, you did indeed get lucky if it wasn’t tough for you. I wish I could say the same thing about my quit.

      I’m surprised that you’re calling me out for throwing out numbers… I very rarely throw out numbers when talking about my addiction cause I think it’s a rather stupid argument. The stat you’re referencing where I said 6/100,000 is below:

      “Is there an epidemic of oral cancer in the world? Absolutely not. 6 out of 100,000 per year IS super low… unless you’re one of those 6. However, saying using smokeless won’t do much to your chances of getting oral is laughable as well. Using it increases your changes more than 4x than not using.”

      So yes, I threw out a number. But I also pointed out how silly that argument was. I also went on to point out that if you’re that 1 it’s a pretty significant number.

      I legitimately don’t try to talk down to folks. I was a dipper for nearly 2 decades and I loved it! Do I think I’m “better” than someone who’s dipping? No. Smarter? No. Do I personally think I made a better choice by quitting? Yes.

      I’ve never been one of those “you must quit or you’ll die” anti-tobacco advocates. It’s silly. Do we have photos and stats here on the site? Absolutely. But I try to be as accurate as I can and I’ve removed items in the past that have proven to be false.

      Sorry if you view me as a prick. I’m passionate about the subject and we’re trying to help as many people as possible. *shrugs*

    • Hi Tyler. Awesome that you’re quit. How did you do it?

      Harm reduction is not a “good start”. In 1994, many internal tobacco company documents were leaked. These papers (known as the tobacco papers) were the basis to the tobacco master settlement in 1998.One of the leaked papers was a small one that stated dual usage (i.e. using both smokeless and combustible) increased the probability that a person could not quit nicotine. Studies throughout the years have confirmed this. Harm reduction is a marketing policy that the tobacco industry embraced many years ago (remember those old ads that said “There in a pinch”. What referred to the fact that smokeless could be used when you couldn’t smoke.

      Secondly, most of us are inspired by those cancer stories. Tom Kern is a very popular story here, and this Tony Gwynn discussion has inspired many others to quit recently. However, a quit is not built on these “fears”. You’ve been quit for a few years and don’t buy into these “fears”…yet you’re quit. We quit because we want to be free from this poison, and we’re tired of it running our lives. Fact is that tobacco use raises the risk factor to contract cancer.

      Nobody is talking down to anybody here. We deal with quit everyday, and we’re quite successful at it. Stay quit, but don’t fall for the propaganda stating smokeless is harmless.

      Thanks.

      Scott

  29. You cant save them all Chewie. I have done zero research on the subject, I have no stats to throw out there, but I can tell you that the decision to stop dipping 2 years ago(after being addicted for 20+yrs) is the best decision I have ever made. I was a complete slave to the can, couldnt go anywhere without it. My days were usually planned around when I could get my fix. I dreaded going out with the family, because I knew that I was going to have go dipless for awhile. I may or may not have gotten cancer, but I was missing out on living my life. shoogie day 754

  30. I am no expert, I have no figures to throw out, and I’m not a doctor. Like Scott above, those ‘scare tactics’ and ‘fears’ never meant much to me when I was using for damn near 30 years. When I was ready, I was ready.

    I don’t look at cancer pictures. Never have, probably (hopefully) never will. I didn’t need to.

    I watched my father and mother both loose fights with cancer. I watched them both (in an 18 month span) whittle down to 90 lbs, become incontinent, go through the pain of chemo and radiation, only to succomb to the nastiest of diseases. I literally watched my father take his last breath.

    Know what? Neither used tobacco.

    Now, I’m no smart man, and anyone on the site will attest to that; however, I have a pretty good feeling that since my mom, dad, both grandfathers, three uncles and my sister have all had cancer (my sister is the only one to survive it), I’m pretty fucking certain I will one day. So why not just go using, right?

    Wrong.

    I know that my chances of contracting the big C are reduced DRAMATICALLY from not stuffing my face with cat turd. Your car accident Tyler, is just adolescent.

    I do understand some of your point though. Nobody likes getting corned by the ‘born again’ guy at the office party, or family reunion, and you may think ole Chewie is being a bit ‘preachy’. Well, to this I say, “Take what you need, leave the rest.”

    If you don’t quite get that, then I offer you an invitation to join KTC, get on the forums and pay it forward, becuase that, Tyler, is what this man we call Chewie does every damn day.

    Countless, THANKLESS hours spent maintaining websites to offer knowledge, support and brotherhood to those of us who somehow, almost by miricle found each other on this tiny little corner of the interwebs.

    Want some numbers? How about KTC boasts almost TWENTY THOUSAND registered members, and over 2.6 MILLION posts. All for a FREE website that is only, completely, solely about helping other people breack free from addiction.

    So congrats on your 5 years, stud, and I applaud you trying to help your dad. I envy you.

  31. So while we are throwing out numbers and calling others pricks….

    You want to continue to think that smoking is worse and smokeless is “harm reduction” I will beg to differ with you. It all boils down to a numbers game.

    About 42 million people smoke- this is about 18% but doesn’t include the following;
    13.4 million smoke cigars
    2.5 million smoke pipes
    That is 57.9 MILLION people that smoke just in the US

    On the other hand only about 9 million in the US use smokeless tobacco.

    Start taking percentages on those numbers. Tobacco is deadly no matter what form you ingest it in.

    For those of you that keep calling this a habit, you are wrong. It is an addiction. There is no difference between nicotine and heroin addiction. I will fight this fight till the very end and it will be worth every minute of it.

    As you can tell (hopefully), I am totally with Chewie on this one. I spent way too many years of my life revolving around that can. Late night trips to the store, multiple stores if they were out somewhere (I once went to 8 stores in one night to get 1 can), taking time away from my family, and generally looking like a jackass with a turd in my lip pretty much 24/7. For me being free and clean is the best for me.

    Harm reduction? Not for me, I want to be around as long as I can for my wife, 2 kids, Scouts, and my brothers on KTC. No more being a slave for me.

  32. There’s a very powerful book in the business world that is still used as a key text book in most business colleges called “How to Lie with Statistics.” Statistics are powerful, but not everything.

    This site is filled with tons of testimonials of men and women and the story of their addiction to nicotine. The shame, lack of integrity, insecurity, fear, terror, and guilt for being addicted to something that we know will eventually get to us. It may be a low statistical probability for cancer, but the quitters that quit because they get a scare rarely succeed in staying quit. It’s the ones that quit for a more holistic reason, that understand the power of an addiction and want to be free from that that quit. The quitters that are successful want to quit because they have spent years making promises to people they loved that they would quit, but couldn’t keep their word. The quitters that are successful understand that they are addicted to a substance that also alters how they interact with others. There is a common theme among addicts of any kind and that is that they are not people of integrity or honor, There isn’t a single addict, that at some point in there life, either to themselves or to someone they care about, have said those words of “I’ll quit” only to go back on their word.

    If fear is the only reason a person is trying to quit, it may get them across the start line, but it won’t fuel them for the entire journey. There will always be the excuses, statistics, “reasons”, hardships, etc that will make someone that quit out of fear go back to their master and be enslaved again.

    The incredible sense of freedom and power one has when they know they have quit, and have the support structure in place to stay quit is not describable appropriately in words. It will bring grown men to tears talking about the joy. The quitter can look the person/people they love in the eyes and can feel like they are truly respectable because of their honor and integrity. They gave their word and kept it. I don’t know of a single person that still chews, that way deep down in their soul doesn’t have that sense of shame…it’s something not quantifiable with statistics or scientific research, but doesn’t make it any less true.

    If you want to chew, you’ll give yourself a million reasons to do so. Most of the reasons that are common are given above by various posts. I’ve been there and used all those reasons. It still didn’t make me feel any better about it. It didn’t make me feel better about it because I knew, it wasn’t the truth. Even when it was a statistic. That spidey sensor we are all born with, the bullshit detector if you will, still lets you know that it’s a load of crap. That sensor tells you that not only are you lying to yourself, but you are lying to those you care about and love. And furthermore, you are putting those people that love you, in the precarious place of making them lie to themselves in order to be somehow ok with you being addicted to something. It’s a horrible horrible feeling and a feeling that feeds the addictive cycle because it sucks so bad that you just want to put another one in your lip and forget about it.

    If you want to quit and experience what freedom feels like, myself and a whole hell of a lot of people on this site are willing and waiting to help you. If you want to know what it feels like to walk tall again, to look people in the eye again, and to know with every fiber in your body that you are not a liar any longer, but a man or woman of integrity, then I humbly invite you to come aboard. If you are a Christian, I welcome you to experience what it feels like to be able to go to God in prayer without hauling your idol along with you. Freedom tastes a whole lot better than anything you will find in a can. Freedom. People fight for it and die for it every day. I can’t state my feelings about it any better than that.

    Most sincerely,
    Bronc

    • I don’t really know how to appropriately go about responding to this, but here I go. I myself am currently 22 years old and have been using tobacco (mainly smokeless tobacco) since I was roughly 14 years old. Over the past few years dipping has started making my blood pressure rise from dipping. So I have been on the quest to quit dipping and have made 1000 excuses up, lied about quitting, tried hiding it etc. You hit the nail on the head with your comment, I literally broke down and cried at work today when I read this. I choose now to be a clean man, someone with integrity and not a liar, to leave that addiction behind me and start a new life without it. You are the reason I chose this new path and I thank you for the time you spent posting that, you have just changed my life. Words cannot express to you how I feel at this time!

    • Wonderful post ! I am 50,and I have used 11/2-2 cans a day for 36 years. I have recently quit cold turkey Christmas Eve 2014. I could list many reasons for wanting to quit such as my high blood pressure, gum problems ,and throat problems all of which are excellent reasons to quit, right ?
      I realized that I am imprisoned by the can ! Everything I do revolves around a can of tobacco. If i am about to run out and have only a small chew left ,I will not sleep well at night wondering if I have enough for when I open my eyes.Every morning when I wake I can’t brush my teeth fast enough so I can get a dip. I can’t wait to finish eating so I can dip. I will go to the store at any hour in any weather to buy a can. Normally I have cans hidden everywhere but eventually you will use that up and run out. When this happens you realize just how addicted you are. When you choose not to go to a special occasion because it is to long ,and you may not be able to dip You Have A Problem!

      I admit it I have a problem.

      I have quit and I am telling myself I will never chew again! This website is helping so thanks to all of you for your sharing your successes.

      Robert

      • Robert great post! I agree. My name is Josh and I am 38 yrs old. I started dipping when I was 15. I played baseball and dipped. Copenhagen snuff is my brand, and I dip about a can a day. The only thing I have noticed is that my gums are starting to recede a little bit. I brush my teeth regularly. I plan on quitting by my 40th Bday because one, that’s 25 yrs of dipping and two, because I hear that men 40 and older have a much higher risk of oral cancer. I already know it’s going to be really hard because I literally freak out if I don’t have any snuff.

  33. you people who think using is completely “OK” are nuts – coming from someone who used smokeless tobacco for 10 years – done in moderation, done only at night before i went to sleep i would watch a movie or a sporting event – and let me tell you what it has done to me – it has given me TMJ to where i have now started wearing a night guard, it has turned my teeth yellow, it has given me MULTIPLE mouth sores that go away eventually but they are still VERY painful and towards the end before I quit it gave me complete anxiety that i was going to get throat cancer or mouth cancer. Don’t be one of those people who think “it will never happen to me” because you know what they say NEVER say NEVER. I will be very grateful and LUCKY if that is all comes from using Smokeless Tobacco. If I get cancer or have mouth problems the rest of my life then it is my own fault and I can only blame myself for even starting. Don’t do it, it’s NOT worth the stress, and eventual mouth soreness or pain it causes

  34. Give us one example as to when smokeless tobacco has been directly traced to causing cancer…
    Then look up the statistics as to how many cancer cases have been directly traced to smoking…
    Not a safer alternative? BLASPHEMY!

    • The title of this post is a bit misleading… I think it’s fair to say that by some measures, smokeless is “safer” than smoking. But then again, is a 9mm “safer” than a 357 Magnum? I get what you’re saying Hank, but please recognize what we’re saying too. When folks see that smokeless is a “safer” alternative, they read that to mean a “safe” alternative… which is a VERY different thing. Make sense?

  35. I read through all of this and I get both sides, I agree it increases your chances but
    The chances are so low that it is not much to worry about, especially in moderation. If you are worried that you are going to get cancer it’s simple to just quit because you don’t want to die. What is more important? Some people continue because they don’t have much to live for but themselves. Some people enjoy the peace of mind knowing that they won’t have mouth cancer if they don’t chew. Some people want to live to watch their grandkids grow up. Fine. Either way if you chew, expect to have mouth problems and all of the other stuff along with it, regardless of statistics, it damages you and any excuse to do it will give you “reasons” to continue use. If you are willing to accept what it may do to you in the long run, it’s your choice. Power to you for not using anymore

    • this man is right. and at the same time every chemical reacts to peoples body differently. so what research says about it on their test subjects may be completely different to how it affects each and every other person. so in reality you are all right and wrong at the exact same time. arguing about this is pointless.

  36. Breathing the air cause cancer im a 10 year dipper who tells anyone that isnt a tobaccoo user to just not start its a waste of money i am addicted and i moderate my usage to about a can or tin every 3-4 days which is about 2 dips daily. Have i had any signs of cancer from dip no. Did i show signs of polyps in my lungs yes i did. I have never smoked a cigarette in my life nor cigar. Lucky me i had my cancer in my LUNGS found at very early stages so i didnt lose anything. But here it is straight dip isnt good for you but neither Is living a day to day life.

  37. Y’all. Should read how smokless tobacco saved my life dippin has for less chemicels in it then cigarettes none are good for but if you where to choose one smokless tobacco is far saver then cigarettes are there have been no direct deaths leadin to the cuase of smokless tobacco but lots from cigarettes. Its more harmful to breath the air in and aroumd the city then it is to dip! My dad age 55 dipped sence he was 16 no sideaffects beside hartburn and gatorlip my gradpa who turned 98 this summer dipped for 79 years hes still alive the warnin labels on the dip can are things that can happen will they mostlikly not just like all other medicines out there

  38. During your life you allotted just so much time. Preservation of life and lengthening the inevitable is endless and futile. We will all die. So if you’re going to dip, dip. Smoke? Then smoke. Shoot up? Get high? Go for it… but just remember that each and every time you engage in destructive behavior you are affecting all those who love you. I dip, smoke, drink and yeah I probably eat too much red meat. That’s my life. And I’ve lived it well and have had so many wonderful memories.

    I will not sit here and read these comments from people on their high horses pretending to be better than others under the guise of “providing information”. It’s maddening and useless. Guess how many lives have been changed reading all of these? None.

    Live your life. Don’t lay on that bed wishing you had done things differently.

    But take some advice from me.

    Everything in moderation…. including moderation.

  39. My father in law smoked for 11 years and chewed for 17 years. When he was 45 he went to the dentist who saw something odd on the inside of his cheek and referred him to an oral surgeon who removed what he called a “low grade carcinoma” from his cheek.Technically, an advanced leukoplakia. It was in the exact spot he held his dip for 17 years. He let me look in there once. It looks like someone took a small ice cream scoop out of his cheek and gums. He’s been chewing nic gum ever since, 12 years ago.

  40. I personally quit smoking cigs and started dipping I like it better and think its not as bad for you however I don’t defend it that it is safe and doesn’t cause cancer. I do believe cancer can be genetic but I am also an herbalist and believe that your diet of healthy foods and herbs can ward off cancer from studies that prove fruits without ingesting pesticides, vegetables and certain herbs improve your cellular structures stability such as garlic, onions, green tea, tulsi, etc. this explains why I know people who have smoked for forty years and somehow don’t have cancer. And yes we are all exposed to so much that causes cancer in this day and age including radio waves and preservatives so the way I look at it is try to reduce cancer causing substances and technology and maximize a variety of natural foods to balance and negate the bad.

  41. This is all a joke. Rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com

  42. Thank you so much Chewie! I stopped chewing for a year, started back up yesterday, was fighting the battle today on whether to use it and you pushed me toward the light and I threw the cans out. I’m thankful you took the time to reach out to people like me. It made a world of difference. It means a lot knowing I can be as passionate as you about stopping if I push myself. Thanks again

  43. What fuckin losers are on a quit dip site defending it! And who’s the retard saying it’s not possible to dip two cans a day? Chewed for 15 years, 11 days quit, hardest shit I’ve ever done! I never went without a dip, it was me! And now adjusting is hell. The fog and anxiety is out of control. To everyone trying to kick the habit, keep it up and thanks chewie for all the good info! By the way had a buddy chew got two years and had serious mouth cancer and now has half his mouth cut out. Play with fire and you might get burned.

  44. Ok let’s settle this. There are cancer causing agents in smokeless tobacco, this is a fact. But that’s all that they are, agents that have been tested and are KNOWN to cause cancer. Not will cause you body to develop cancer x amount of time in the future if you continue using smokeless tobacco. There are too many variables that happen in any persons life, whether they use tobacco or not to say hey he used smokeless tobacco that’s what caused his cancer. You can link various agents found in tobacco to cancer but where we sit right now it can’t be proven that tobacco causes cancer.

  45. How much is the FDA paying you to spew this propaganda?

  46. Actually I saw on the news where scientists rehashed their ideas of what causes cancer and they found that two-thirds of cancer cases were caused by random genetic mutation which had nothing to do with the persons diet, or the persons genetics.

  47. If chewing causes cancer and I do die from it who cares everyone dies eventually who cares when and where and from what

  48. I’m on my first day of quitting….sucks balls

  49. One thing I know is that everyone on this earth with one day die. Unlike everything previously mentioned, that is an undeniable fact. There is no study that proves with a notable degree of certainty that ST is a direct cause of cancer. The above mentioned “facts” are mere speculations of why less than one percent of the population gets oral cancer. The chemicals found in ST are found in pretty much every food one can consume, as mentioned in previous comments. Any medical professional will tell you not to use ST because it is not essential to survival. They don’t tell you not to drive a car even though more people die in car accidents per year than from oral cancer because that is essential to one’s lifestyle. Tobacco has gotten a bad name because of the deaths smoking has caused. However, the two cannot be accurately compared. When a substance is combusted it is completely altered into something other than it previously was… That’s a fact. From reading all the previous comments I have one thing to share. I smoked for a year and when I tried to resume my running hobby when the weather got nice I could feel a clear difference in my performance. It clearly suffered from only one year of smoking. I picked up the can and was able to resume my running. I can say that yes ST is addictive ( like almost anything else), you are always rolling the dice whether you use ST or drive your car, and no matter what I will one day die. If I continued to smoke I would not be able to perform at the level I now can. I chose ST for that reason. I enjoy my life to the fullest and suffer no hinderance from ST. Pick your poison people and make an informed decision for yourself, to each his own. If you feel that ST will give you oral cancer, don’t do it. If you’re afraid of anything in this world no one should pressure you to do it but they also shouldn’t stop you… or try to scare you with unproven evidence. ST may have saved my life but I won’t bet my life on it just like I can’t guarantee I won’t die in a car accident. My chances are greater with the latter….. Just some food for thought.

    • *sigh*

      The “everyone’s going to die” argument. Thanks for playing.

      • Chewing tobacco is not as bad as cigs..? Cigarettes cause 11 minutes of your life? Chewing tobacco doesn’t. Chewing tobacco can give you mouth cancer. Cigs can also give you cancer but cigs will kill you a lot faster.

    • You lost me at “The chemicals found in ST are found in pretty much every food one can consume”…so Formaldehyde (Embalming Fluid), Polonium (Nuclear Waste), Cadmium (used in Automobile Batteries), Lead (Poison), Hydrazine (Toxic Chemical), N-Nitorsamines (a Cancer causing chemical)…not to mention, a chemical that is more addicting than Heroin, NICOTINE, is in the food we eat??? I mean all these things are found in ST and, according to you, they are also found in our food too?? I am just stating “the facts” here….but find it hard to believe all of the above are “found in pretty much every food one can consume”.
      Good for you, you chose one addictive form of tobacco over another (chewing over smoking). I too chose ST for the same reasons you do/did, I was an athlete and am still a runner today. It takes a really strong individual to decide they no longer want to be a slave to the addiction….you obviously are not strong enough to give up nicotine and will let it continue to control your life, FINE! But really…is it necessary to come here and stick up for dippers? It almost makes me wonder if you’re really a tobacco salesman. This is a forum for the strong, not the weak. Come back if you need help quitting.

      • Amen JAYP ! This site is support to help the addictive trying to quit. Not to expose everyone’s ignorance on why to keep chewing because it’s healthy.

        • You got it Robert, pure ignorance! I am all over this site and it has been nothing short of a total blessing to me and my quit. Without all the STRONG quitters here, with all their successful stories and support for one another, not sure how much luck I would of had quitting. It amazes me there are people that come to a forum like this, to argue the “good” tobacco has done for them. Really?!?! Its an addiction (and a strong one), that only the strong can break free from. I commend every single individual who has the balls to ditch the can and get free from it. Nothing “healthy” about it..PERIOD!
          -JP

  50. LISTEN UP EVERYONE I’M TRYING TO HELP. I do research for a living, and I am also a smokeless tobacco user, so I know how to get the facts. Our government sucks at a lot of what it does, but it’s great at conducting research studies and presenting the evidence. SMOKELESS TOBACCO IS EVERY BIT AS DANGEROUS AS CIGARETTES. Refer to the fact-sheet given to us by the National Cancer Institute:

    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/causes-prevention/risk/tobacco/smokeless-fact-sheet

    This article states that smokeless tobacco definitely causes at least 3 types of cancer. Please notice that the article references 7 different scholarly (which means accurate and NOT biased) research studies. The most important one is the first reference, which is a study conducted by French scientists (which INCLUDED American tobacco users):

    http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol89/mono89.pdf

    Nobody wants to read all of this crap, especially myself. The table on Page 170 of the study states that, with a large and diverse demographic (which means the results were not all that skewed or biased), FREQUENT SMOKELESS TOBACCO USERS HAVE A RELATIVE RISK OF 11.2. It’s undeniable math that states PEOPLE WHO DIP OFTEN ARE UP TO 11.2 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DEVELOP MOUTH CANCER than the people who never dipped.

    YOU WANNA HEAR SOMETHING FUNNY: The relative risk of squamous cell carcinoma (nasty cancer) in frequent cigarettes smokers is 11.7, which is almost EXACTLY THE SAME as the risk found in smokeless tobacco users. Here’s the reference for that, which has it’s own scholarly references:

    http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/14/9/2125.short

    If you just wanna look at the relative risk of 21.7 for small-cell carcinoma, then do me (or at least yourself) a favor and look through the hundreds of references in the smokeless tobacco study. They’re all based on SQUAMOUS CELL CARCINOMA and NOT small-cell carcinoma, just like the 11.7 part of the cigarette study.

    I A M T R Y I N G T O H E L P

    I am quitting as soon as I finish typing this because I never bothered to look into the TRUTH. This is science. This is math. This is historical truth being written so it can HELP US LIVE TO WATCH OUR CHILDREN GROW UP, along with whatever else we want out of our lives. Please be open to the truth about ANY form of tobacco:

    Tobacco is dangerous, and it will probably take you down if you don’t take it down first.

    I wish you all the best of luck :)

    • And yeah, some people get LUCKY and don’t die of cancer because of smokeless tobacco use. When scientists, researchers, and doctors say it CAUSES cancer they are right. Do you want to know why? Cause and effect is a chance game like a lot of you said. CAUSE does not mean you have a 100% chance of getting cancer if you dip. CAUSE means the sore in your mouth (which you have an 11.2 times higher chance of getting if you dip) was likely CAUSED by dipping. Not CERTAINLY caused by dipping, but even if that makes you think “we will never know for sure”, I promise you’ll be singing a different tune when you have to say your final goodbyes to your crying children while you’re lying in a hospital bed regretting every shred of tobacco you ever stuck in your mouth.

      • Users look for any excuse to continue their habit. Look, I did it for 25 years, and I just didn’t “want” to quit. I finally set a date and woke up one day and finally smelt what I was shoveling all of those years. People look for every excuse in the book to continue their habits. I especially love the cases where one gets a scare, or even worse, that actually beat the cancer, then go right back to tobacco, once cleared…what a friggin joke!
        Not trying to beat anyone like a Dutch Uncle out here (sorry to any of the Dutch here), but I agree with all Nick said, when you use, you tip the scale back in favor of the cancer spectrum. Anyone disputing that is in severe denial.
        -JP

        • no one is denying that you raise your risks, but what we are saying is that it is a low risk, there is a difference, Sure, you are best off not doing it. But hey, even if you never touch the stuff, you can still get cancer, just so you know. I drive my car every day, yet there are people who die in car crashes every day. By driving, I am “tipping the scales” in favor of getting in a car crash. Should I stop? No, because the risk is quite low. Compare this to tobacco use. Smoking is like driving drunk; it greatly increases your risk of death. Smokeless tobacco use is like driving safely with a seat belt on, while this will not eliminate your risk of death or injury, it certainly lowers it.

          • “Sure, you are best off not doing it”….I rest my case.
            Look, you want to dip, then dip dude, I care less. Just know, You will NEVER convince me that chewing tobacco is “safe”….I was addicted to that shit for 25 years!
            Sure, people drive cars and die in accidents everyday, but guess what? If there were as many dippers in the world, as there are drivers, then maybe we would have a more accurate statistic. In my opinion, you’re comparing apples and bowling balls there pal.
            As mentioned, if you want to dip, dip, but don’t come here to a WONDERFUL forum and start thumping the can and talking about how “safe” that shit is. That’s the talk of an addict that isn’t strong enough to break free from the addiction (yet at least). This is a forum for the strong quitters, like myself, who know the shit is bad and who don’t want to be a slave to the drug anymore.
            Its a free world, do what you want, but stop talking about how safe the worm-dirt tobacco is, it’s a drug, and all drugs have an abusive component, Smokeless Tobacco is on par with a heroin addiction.
            -JP

  51. Smokeless tobacco does not raise your risks SIGNIFICANTLY of oral cancer. According to the ACS, 39,500 cases of oral cancer will occur. that is 0.012 percent of the population. The risk is so low, that it is difficult to even find risks of non users compared to users. Check out tobaccoharmreduction.org for some great statistics. Im tired of this misinformation. If you are going to give information, give the facts, and stop showing us propaganda of teens getting it (which, in all likely hood in those cases cancer was not caused by their dipping habits) and give us some hard numbers and statistical data.

    • Hey Jim,
      Do you work for Phillip Morris or the U.S. Smokeless Tobacco Company?
      Stop hiding behind your real agenda out here….I’m on to you pal!

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